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  1. big_joe2:31
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bananapatchbob

I can only agree with you regarding the fake news about the cost of the MOAB. CNN is notorious for going on air (ERR?) with stories before they check the facts. That's because they're so intent upon scooping stories that they figure they can go back later and revise any errors which they missed. I believe they did that with the MOAB story. Hmm. Maybe there's a reason why the Garden Network had higher ratings than CNN did at one time...

-- ..."the number heavily cited across social media, $314 million, was never confirmed by the US military..." (http://www.businessinsider.com/how-much-does-moab-bomb-cost-mother-of-all-bombs-2017-4)

And most -- maybe all -- of the others were pointing out that the $314 figure was for R&D ($300M), plus the cost this single MOAB device ($16M)

So now my beef with MSM comes down to their problem with math, although if so, they're erring in the militarists' favour. The other sources are friend-of-a-friend type quotes.

Dang....I thought we'd dug up some easily-verfiably fake msm news. Oh well, back to the drawing board

bananapatchbob

Your interest in this conversation is itself admirable. Here's my response: I'm sure we can agree that the primary role of government is to protect its citizens. The secondary role is to protect its five basic institutions. One can go to any nation and see that the prevailing culture of each has a government, a military, an education system, religions, and an economy.

Of these five basic institutions, the economy is most immediate in that it supports the others. The likeliest exception to that is religion, since adherence to its tenets doesn't cost money.

When al Qaeda and the Taliban decided, many years ago, to attack the West, it targeted the US because its "movers and shakers" knew that attacking the WTC, the Pentagon, and other probable targets, would make the statement at US institutions are weak and vulnerable. As such, the goal was to terrorize the American people with such intensity that we would somehow pressure our politicians to finally yield to the "religion of peace".

But that didn't happen; Muslim terrorists in both the Mideast and in Afghanistan underestimated the will of the American people. In short, we never decided to allow them to control our perceptions or our fears. The aforementioned Muslim terrorists lost a psychological war which they perpetrated.

Now, then. Allowing refugee terrorists into the country would violate primary role of government mentioned previously. In fact, President Obama did violate that very basic principle. And he has likely put many of us at risk. On a special note, common sense would dictate that allowing ten thousand males between the ages of fifteen and fifty-five, all of who appear to be lean, fit, and trim, and whose backgrounds cannot be checked for ties with terror, is simply inviting disaster. It doesn't take a seasoned combat veteran to connect the dots.

The statistics you've cited are from the same federal government which makes all kinds of questionable statistical claims. My favorites is the commonly cited unemployment rate. most recently, it stands at 4.7 percent. If the full unemployment rate were truly that low, then jobs would figuratively be falling out of trees. Businesses would be starting up almost everywhere. Help Wanted signs would be popping up like clover in the springtime.

But that isn't happening here. Those who happen to be responsible for our state of affairs (i.e., department by department) have a vested interest in making themselves look as effective at running those departments as they possibly can. That's why I question the figures you've cited. Getting back to the unemployment figure of 4.7%, it's actually an underreported figure. The Bureau of Labor Statistics leads with the 4.7 percent figure, because that figure makes government look less incompetent than the U6 figure, which takes many more factors into consideration including (but not limited to) those who have been unemployed for so long that they aren't included in the previously mentioned U3 statistics. The U3 also lacks the number (or percent) of those who have returned to school and are living on student loan monies, those who work part time, etc. Those politicians who are in office at any given time simply shy away from U6 figures. The current U6 rate stands at 8.9 percent. As you can see, that's very unfavorable-sounding compared to the U3. I mention the unemployment rates as an example of how the government uses statistical figures to shape perception, so please forgive me for not taking those you've cited too seriously. The government has earned a serious loss of credibility over the decades.

Sources have cited the $314 million dollar MOAB price tag. http://www.businessinsider.com/how-much-does-moab-bomb-cost-mother-of-all-bombs-2017-4

https://www.newsbusters.org/blogs/nb/tom-blumer/2017/04/16/media-and-left-create-laughably-wrong-moab-cost-calamity

http://www.conservativenews.com/article/2260/fake-news-alert-media-uses-false-moab

http://heavy.com/news/2017/04/mother-of-all-bombs-moab-gbu43/

The leftist media here jumped the gun by making the claim that the MOAB would cost $314 million dollars.

Oh, and I'm STILL(!!) wondering the source of your statement that "$314,000,000P price tag which the msm loves to echo is a lie" WHICH msm source?

Let's out the rascals whoever they are. I'm with you on that one; give us the source, and I'll spread the word; I'm always against #FAKENEWS, whatever the source

Regardless of your lack of worry (which is admirable), I think virtually all would agree that the risk of 'ordinary' criminal violence is magnitudes greater than that of a terrorist attack.

Some recent stats from the National Safety Council and the National Center for Health Statistics:

"Compared to the threat posed by refugee terrorists — which the president's executive order is allegedly designed to curtail — the data suggest the typical American is:

6 times more likely to die from a shark attack (one of the rarest forms of death on Earth)
29 times more likely to die from a regional asteroid strike
260 times more likely to be struck and killed by lightning
4,700 times more likely to die in an airplane or spaceship accident
129,000 times more likely to die in a gun assault
407,000 times more likely to die in a motor vehicle incident
6.9 million times more likely to die from cancer or heart disease"

(http://www.businessinsider.com/death-risk-statistics-terrorism-disease-accidents-2017-1)

Isn't it reasonably clear where that $16 million would have been better spent?

bananapatchbob

MickL No, I don't. I believe that, although there is no guarantee that everyone will be prosperous, in the US there are great opportunities to become financially successful provided one (a) makes good decisions, and (b) works hard toward his or her goals. Criminal activity is almost always the result of making poor decisions and failing to behave in a manner beneficial for society. I don't believe criminals should use being in poverty as an excuse to engage in criminal behavior. I live below the poverty level. I don't use that as an excuse to victimize someone who has more than I do.

I don't worry about either terrorist attacks or being mugged, because if I do then I've become controlled by either a mugger or a terrorist.

@bananapatchbob -- don't you think the extreme socio-economic inequalities in the USA that is behind much/most criminal activity is a far greater threat to individual lives?

A simple thought experiment: when you step out on to the street, are you more worried about being mugged or worse, or being the victim of a terrorist attack?

Oh, @bananapatchbob -- which MSM sources quoted the price tag at $314 M? I'd like to call them out on that one!!

bananapatchbob

How do I put a price on human life? It's pretty simple: whatever it costs to eliminate the Muslim threat to my countrymen is the price.

Exactly, @Woofers . So what is the purpose of dropping this bomb? If the US wants to use military tactics, I would think it better to spend the money on numerous targeted attacks.
The only effect of this is to say, Hey, look what we've got

(and do YOU know which MSM source(s) gave a price tag of $314M? @bananapatchbob quoted that, and I wanted to write that media, but bpb hasn't responded yet with his source)

Be safe, Mick

Woofers

What you don't seem to get MickL is that the Terrorist will carry out those attacks if they can regardless of what we do. Of course they will cite the dropping of this bomb as a reason, but they already have enough reasons to kill innocent people. If everyone converted to their twisted form of Islam tomorrow, they would find more reasons.

Oh, bpb, which MSM sources quoted the price tag at $314 M? I'd like to call them out on that one!!

And now for something completely different:

An Irish painter by the name of Murphy, while not a brilliant scholar, was a gifted portrait artist. Over a short number of years, his fame grew and soon people from all over Ireland were coming to the town of Miltown Malbay, in County Clare, to get him to paint their likenesses.

One day, a beautiful young English woman arrived at his house in a stretch limo and asked if he would paint her in the nude. This being the first time anyone had made such a request he was a bit perturbed, particularly when the woman told him that money was no object; in fact, and she was willing to pay up to 10,000 Euros!

Not wanting to get into any marital strife, he asked her to wait while he went into the house to confer with Mary, his wife. They talked much about the rightness and wrongness of it. It was hard to make the decision but finally his wife agreed, on one condition.

After a short while, he returned. "T'would be me pleasure to paint yer portrait, missus," he said "The wife says it's okay. "I'll paint you in the nude all right; - -but . . . . . . . . . I have to at least leave me socks on, so I have a place to wipe me brushes."

Um, you'll see I quoted $16 million. But how do you put a price on a human life?

All that results from this is more terrorists, more death, another weapons race as the Doomsday Clock ticks ever closer to midnight. Nothing good, except more jobs around the world making instruments whose sole purposes are death and mutilation.

bananapatchbob

Apparently I was going too fast for you.

bananapatchbob

MickL -You do realize that the MOAB killed well over 100 ISIS terrorists. You can bet your a$$ that many more were vaporized in their tunnels. Oh, and that "$314,000,000P price tag which the msm loves to echo is a lie; that much money would pay for 20 MOABS. Now THAT'S worth paying taxes for! The media bought a lie perpetrated by the treasonous Snowden, who defected to Russia.

(apropos of nothing...no hidden message :-) )

Meantime, amidst all this death and destruction, I'll lighten the mood:

Maury was a handsome young lad, and everybody in his village knew him and liked him, so it was not unusual for the village priest to stop him on his way home from the bakery for a short chat.
"Ciao, Maurizio. I see you have the staff of life in your hand there. What do you have in the other?"
"A loaf of bread."

There's a surprise: lower the corporate tax rate --as a marginalized person, how do you feel about the 1% (which includes Trump, of course) increasing their incomes on your back?

bananapatchbob

The MOAB has now killed over ninety ISIS terrorists that we know of; considering the dynamics of the explosion, the tunnels, etc., that number is likely much higher.

"healthcare for the marginalized, "other social inequalities? & so forth?" What a laugh. First of all, Obama and the establishment Democrats inflicted mandates so we'd all have to go out and purchase health insurance whether we could afford it or not. Either we pay it or we're subjected to having to pay a fine which Obummer laughingly called a "tax". People suffered huge increases in their insurance premiums because in many cases we were no longer allowed to keep our insurance plans. We were forced yo buy more expensive ones which would meet the dictates of the "affordable" care act. btw I'm one of the marginalized. Obummercare hurt me, if you want to grind a political axe. President Trump wants to lower the corporate tax rate and reduce overregulation as two steps toward lowering the high unemployment rate here (U6 figures).

"everything"?
Like healthcare for the marginalized? Other social inequalities? & so forth?

bananapatchbob

The libs can sneer all they want to. They're usually wrong about everything anyway.

bananapatchbob

It was well worth the price. An ISIS command center was destroyed. I'll gladly pay for more MOABs to be dropped. This wasn't about killing "only 36 ISIS terrorists. But hey, if you're into body count then common sense should tell you that many, many others were buried alive in the tunnels.

@Woofers @Vlh etc....
So that's, what, about $450,000 per death? And methinks there's lots more deaths coming -- of innocent civilians in reprisals for this macho display. Did anybody in the military ever stop to think? For every terrorist that's killed, several more are gonna pop up and wreak their revenge in Paris, or Frankfurt, or Mumbai, or Seattle.
Don't the politicos and generals get it?

(And no, I don't know the solution -- I just know that playing with big toys is definitely NOT the answer. All it does is make the animal part of some brains happy for a while)

Woofers

Vlh it's too bad that the So many you're talking about seems to be only 36 terrorist.

suemarie

My bomb's bigger than your bomb--Nyah, Nyah.......
Sad.....

"Yeeeeeeeee-haw!!!!" (As Slim Pickens would say, as he mistakenly and unknowingly triggered the Doomsday device, destroying all of humanity)

bananapatchbob

Worth every penny.

Nowhere to go? It went right to its target and sent SO many straight to hell!! Burn baby Burn!!

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